A young wife learns to run the house

ΚαὶKai τίti ἄνan,, ἔφηephē,, ὦō ΣώκρατεςSōkrates,, ἐπισταμένηνepistamenēn αὐτὴνautēn παρέλαβονparelabon,, ἣhē ἔτηetē μὲνmen οὔπωoupō πεντεκαίδεκαpentekaideka γεγονυῖαgegonuia ἦλθεēlthe πρὸςpros ἐμέeme,, τὸνton δ’d’ ἔμπροσθενemprosthen χρόνονchronon ἔζηezē ὑπὸhypo πολλῆςpollēs ἐπιμελείαςepimeleias ὅπωςhopōs ὡςhōs ἐλάχισταelachista μὲνmen ὄψοιτοopsoito,, ἐλάχισταelachista δ’d’ ἀκούσοιτοakousoito,, ἐλάχισταelachista δ’d’ ἔροιτοeroito?;

And what, he said, Socrates, knowing her did I take over, who, in years not yet fifteen having become, came to me, and the time before she lived under much care so that as little as possible she should see, as little hear, as little ask?

And what, Socrates, he said, could she have known when I took her, she who came to me not yet fifteen, and till then had lived under close watch, so that she would see as little as possible, hear as little, and ask as little?

οὐou γὰρgar ἀγαπητόνagapēton σοιsoi δοκεῖdokei εἶναιeinai,, εἰei μόνονmonon ἦλθενēlthen ἐπισταμένηepistamenē ἔριαeria παραλαβοῦσαparalabousa ἱμάτιονhimation ἀποδεῖξαιapodeixai,, καὶkai ἑορακυῖαheorakuia ὡςhōs ἔργαerga ταλάσιαtalasia θεραπαίναιςtherapainais δίδοταιdidotai?; ἐπεὶepei τάta γεge ἀμφὶamphi γαστέραgastera,, ἔφηephē,, πάνυpany καλῶςkalōs,, ὦō ΣώκρατεςSōkrates,, ἦλθεēlthe πεπαιδευμένηpepaideumenē;· ὅπερhoper μέγιστονmegiston ἔμοιγεemoige δοκεῖdokei παίδευμαpaideuma εἶναιeinai καὶkai ἀνδρὶandri καὶkai γυναικίgynaiki..

for not something to be content with to you does it seem to be, if only she came knowing wool having taken a cloak to turn out, and having seen how wool-working tasks to maids are given out? since as for the things about the belly, he said, very well, Socrates, she came trained: which greatest to me at least seems a lesson to be both for man and for woman.

For doesn’t it seem to you enough, if she came knowing only how to take wool and turn out a cloak, and having seen how the wool work is given out to the maids? As for matters of the belly,1 he said, she came very well trained, Socrates; and that, I think, is the greatest lesson for man and woman alike.

1. Greek gastēr, “belly”, here means appetite: the girl had been trained to control what she ate and drank. Holden argues that it does not mean skill in cooking.

ΤὰTa δ’d’ ἄλλαalla,, ἔφηνephēn ἐγώegō,, ὦō ἸσχόμαχεIschomache,, αὐτὸςautos ἐπαίδευσαςepaideusas τὴνtēn γυναῖκαgynaika ὥστεhōste ἱκανὴνhikanēn εἶναιeinai ὧνhōn προσήκειprosēkei ἐπιμελεῖσθαιepimeleisthai?; ΟὐOu μὰma Δί’Di’,, ἔφηephē ὁho ἸσχόμαχοςIschomachos,, οὐou πρίνprin γεge καὶkai ἔθυσαethysa καὶkai ηὐξάμηνēuxamēn ἐμέeme τεte τυγχάνεινtynchanein διδάσκονταdidaskonta καὶkai ἐκείνηνekeinēn μανθάνουσανmanthanousan τὰta βέλτισταbeltista ἀμφοτέροιςamphoterois ἡμῖνhēmin.. ΟὐκοῦνOukoun,, ἔφηνephēn ἐγώegō,, καὶkai ἡhē γυνήgynē σοιsoi συνέθυεsynethye καὶkai συνηύχετοsynēucheto ταὐτὰtauta ταῦταtauta?;

And the other things, I said, Ischomachus, yourself did you train your wife so as to be capable of what it falls to her to look after? No, by Zeus, said Ischomachus, not before at least I both sacrificed and prayed that I might succeed in teaching and she in learning what is best for both of us. Then, I said, also the wife with you sacrificed and prayed with you for the same things?

And in other things, Ischomachus, I said, did you yourself train your wife to be capable of looking after what falls to her? No, by Zeus, Ischomachus said, not before I had sacrificed and prayed that I might succeed in teaching, and she in learning what is best for both of us. Then, I said, did your wife also sacrifice with you and pray for these same things?

ΠρὸςPros θεῶνtheōn,, ἔφηνephēn ἐγώegō,, ὦō ἸσχόμαχεIschomache,, τίti πρῶτονprōton διδάσκεινdidaskein ἤρχουērchou αὐτήνautēn,, διηγοῦdiēgou μοιmoi;· ὡςhōs ἐγὼegō ταῦτ’taut’ ἂνan ἥδιόνhēdion σουsou διηγουμένουdiēgoumenou ἀκούοιμιakouoimi ἢē εἴei μοιmoi γυμνικὸνgymnikon ἢē ἱππικὸνhippikon ἀγῶναagōna τὸνton κάλλιστονkalliston διηγοῖοdiēgoio..

By the gods, I said, Ischomachus, what first to teach did you begin her, tell me: for I these things more gladly, you telling them, would hear than if to me an athletic or a horse contest the finest you were to tell.

By the gods, Ischomachus, I said, what did you first begin to teach her? Tell me. I would rather hear this told by you than hear of the finest athletic or horse contest, if you were to tell it to me.

τέκναtekna μὲνmen οὖνoun ἂνan θεόςtheos ποτεpote διδῷdidōi ἡμῖνhēmin γενέσθαιgenesthai,, τότεtote βουλευσόμεθαbouleusometha περὶperi αὐτῶνautōn ὅπωςhopōs ὅτιhoti βέλτισταbeltista παιδεύσομενpaideusomen αὐτάauta;· κοινὸνkoinon γὰρgar ἡμῖνhēmin καὶkai τοῦτοtouto ἀγαθόνagathon,, συμμάχωνsymmachōn καὶkai γηροβοσκῶνgēroboskōn ὅτιhoti βελτίστωνbeltistōn τυγχάνεινtynchanein;·

children, then, if a god ever give to us to come to be, then we shall take counsel about them so that as best as possible we shall bring them up: for common to us also this good, of allies and supporters in old age the best possible to get:

If ever a god lets us have children, we shall then take counsel about them, how to bring them up as well as we can. For this too is a good we share: to have allies and carers for old age,2 the best that can be had.

2. Greeks felt strongly that children should look after their parents when age had weakened them, in return for the care they had received as children (Holden).

νῦνnyn δὲde δὴdē οἶκοςoikos ἡμῖνhēmin ὅδεhode κοινόςkoinos ἐστινestin.. ἐγώegō τεte γὰρgar ὅσαhosa μοιmoi ἔστινestin ἅπανταhapanta εἰςeis τὸto κοινὸνkoinon ἀποφαίνωapophainō,, σύsy τεte ὅσαhosa ἠνέγκωēnenkō πάνταpanta εἰςeis τὸto κοινὸνkoinon κατέθηκαςkatethēkas.. καὶkai οὐou τοῦτοtouto δεῖdei λογίζεσθαιlogizesthai,, πότεροςpoteros ἄραara ἀριθμῷarithmōi πλείωpleiō συμβέβληταιsymbeblētai ἡμῶνhēmōn,, ἀλλ’all’ ἐκεῖνοekeino εὖeu εἰδέναιeidenai,, ὅτιhoti ὁπότεροςhopoteros ἂνan ἡμῶνhēmōn βελτίωνbeltiōn κοινωνὸςkoinōnos ᾖēi,, οὗτοςhoutos τὰta πλείονοςpleionos ἄξιαaxia συμβάλλεταιsymballetai..

but now indeed household to us this common is. for I, as many things as I have, all into the common I put forward, and you, as many things as you brought, all into the common you put down. and not this must be reckoned, which of us then in number more has contributed, but that well to know, that whichever of us the better partner may be, this one the things of more worth contributes.

But now this household of ours3 is shared. For all that I have I put into the common stock, and all that you brought you laid down in the common stock. And we need not reckon which of us has put in more by count, but know this well: whichever of us is the better partner contributes what is worth more.

3. Greek oikos, “household”, means the house together with what belongs to it and the people who live and work in it. Ischomachus calls it shared between husband and wife.

ἀπεκρίνατοapekrinato δέde μοιmoi,, ὦō ΣώκρατεςSōkrates,, πρὸςpros ταῦταtauta ἡhē γυνήgynē;· ΤίTi δ’d’ ἂνan ἐγώegō σοιsoi,, ἔφηephē,, δυναίμηνdynaimēn συμπρᾶξαιsympraxai?; τίςtis δὲde ἡhē ἐμὴemē δύναμιςdynamis?; ἀλλ’all’ ἐνen σοὶsoi πάνταpanta ἐστίνestin;· ἐμὸνemon δ’d’ ἔφησενephēsen ἡhē μήτηρmētēr ἔργονergon εἶναιeinai σωφρονεῖνsōphronein..

and she answered me, Socrates, to this the wife: What could I for you, she said, be able to help to do? and what is my power? but in you everything is: mine, however, said the mother, work to be to be of sound mind.

And to this, Socrates, my wife answered me: What could I, she said, help you to do? And what is my power? But everything depends on you; and my mother said my work was to be sensible.4

4. Sōphronein means to be of sound mind: sensible, self-controlled, modest. No single English word covers all of this. The mother’s saying makes the girl’s whole task one of good sense.

ΝαὶNai μὰma Δί’Di’,, ἔφηνephēn ἐγώegō,, ὦō γύναιgynai,, καὶkai γὰρgar ἐμοὶemoi ὁho πατήρpatēr.. ἀλλὰalla σωφρόνωνsōphronōn τοίtoi ἐστιesti καὶkai ἀνδρὸςandros καὶkai γυναικὸςgynaikos οὕτωhoutō ποιεῖνpoiein,, ὅπωςhopōs τάta τεte ὄνταonta ὡςhōs βέλτισταbeltista ἕξειhexei καὶkai ἄλλαalla ὅτιhoti πλεῖσταpleista ἐκek τοῦtou καλοῦkalou τεte καὶkai δικαίουdikaiou προσγενήσεταιprosgenēsetai..

Yes, by Zeus, I said, wife, for to me also the father. but of sensible people surely it is, both of man and of woman, so to act, that what exists as best it will have and other things as many as possible from the fine and just will be added.

Yes, by Zeus, I said, wife, for to me, too, my father said so. But it is the mark of sensible people, man and woman alike, to act so that what they have may be kept in the best condition and as much more as possible may be added by fair and honest means.

ΚαὶKai τίti δὴdē ταῦτ’taut’ ἐστινestin?; ἔφηephē ἐκείνηekeinē.. ΟἶμαιOimai μὲνmen ἔγωγεegōge,, ἔφηνephēn,, οὐou τὰta ἐλαχίστουelachistou ἄξιαaxia,, εἰei μήmē πέρper γεge καὶkai ἡhē ἐνen τῷtōi σμήνειsmēnei ἡγεμὼνhēgemōn μέλιτταmelitta ἐπ’ep’ ἐλαχίστουelachistou ἀξίοιςaxiois ἔργοιςergois ἐφέστηκενephestēken..

And what indeed these are? said she. I think indeed, I, I said, not the things of least worth, unless indeed even the one in the hive leader bee over of least worth tasks stands.

And what are these things? she said. I think, I said, not tasks of the least worth, unless even the leader bee in the hive5 is set over work of very little worth.

5. Greek hēgemōn, “leader”, is masculine: the ancients took the hive’s ruler for a king, not a queen. Ischomachus offers it as a model for the mistress of a household (Holden, introduction).

δεῖdei δ’d’ αὖau,, ἐπειδὰνepeidan ταῦταtauta εἰσενεχθῇeisenechthēi εἰςeis τὸto στεγνόνstegnon,, καὶkai τοῦtou σώσοντοςsōsontos ταῦταtauta καὶkai τοῦtou ἐργασομένουergasomenou δ’d’ ἃha τῶνtōn στεγνῶνstegnōn ἔργαerga δεόμενάdeomena ἐστιesti.. στεγνῶνstegnōn δὲde δεῖταιdeitai καὶkai ἡhē τῶνtōn νεογνῶνneognōn τέκνωνteknōn παιδοτροφίαpaidotrophia,, στεγνῶνstegnōn δὲde καὶkai αἱhai ἐκek τοῦtou καρποῦkarpou σιτοποιίαιsitopoiiai δέονταιdeontai;· ὡσαύτωςhōsautōs δὲde καὶkai ἡhē τῆςtēs ἐσθῆτοςesthētos ἐκek τῶνtōn ἐρίωνeriōn ἐργασίαergasia..

there is need again, when these have been brought into the roofed place, both of one who will keep these safe and of one who will do the tasks that of roofed places have need. of roofed places there is need also the of newborn children rearing, and of roofed places also the from the fruit food-makings have need: and in the same way also the working of clothing from the wools.

Then again, when these have been brought under a roof, there is need of someone to keep them safe and of someone to do the work that needs shelter. Shelter is also needed for the rearing of newborn children, and for making food from the grain; and likewise for the making of clothing out of wool.

ἐπεὶepei δ’d’ ἀμφότεραamphotera ταῦταtauta καὶkai ἔργωνergōn καὶkai ἐπιμελείαςepimeleias δεῖταιdeitai τάta τεte ἔνδονendon καὶkai τὰta ἔξωexō,, καὶkai τὴνtēn φύσινphysin,, φάναιphanai,, εὐθὺςeuthys παρεσκεύασενpareskeuasen ὁho θεόςtheos,, ὡςhōs ἐμοὶemoi δοκεῖdokei,, τὴνtēn μὲνmen τῆςtēs γυναικὸςgynaikos ἐπὶepi τὰta ἔνδονendon ἔργαerga καὶkai ἐπιμελήματαepimelēmata,, τὴνtēn δὲde τοῦtou ἀνδρὸςandros ἐπὶepi τὰta ἔξωexō..

since both these both of work and of care have need the inside things and the outside, also the nature, he said, from the first prepared the god, as to me it seems, the one of the woman for the inside tasks and cares, and that of the man for the outside.

Since both of these need work and care, the indoor and the outdoor alike, the god, he said, prepared their natures from the first, as it seems to me, the woman’s for indoor work and care, the man’s for the outdoors.

ῥίγηrhigē μὲνmen γὰρgar καὶkai θάλπηthalpē καὶkai ὁδοιπορίαςhodoiporias καὶkai στρατείαςstrateias τοῦtou ἀνδρὸςandros τὸto σῶμαsōma καὶkai τὴνtēn ψυχὴνpsychēn μᾶλλονmallon δύνασθαιdynasthai καρτερεῖνkarterein κατεσκεύασενkateskeuasen;· ὥστεhōste τὰta ἔξωexō ἐπέταξενepetaxen αὐτῷautōi ἔργαerga;· τῇtēi δὲde γυναικὶgynaiki ἧττονhētton τὸto σῶμαsōma δυνατὸνdynaton πρὸςpros ταῦταtauta φύσαςphysas τὰta ἔνδονendon ἔργαerga αὐτῇautēi,, φάναιphanai ἔφηephē,, προστάξαιprostaxai μοιmoi δοκεῖdokei ὁho θεόςtheos..

for colds and heats and journeys and campaigns of the man the body and the soul more to be able to endure he made: so that the outside he assigned to him tasks: and to the woman less the body capable for these things having made, the inside tasks to her, he said that he said, to have assigned seems to me the god.

For cold and heat, and journeys and campaigns, he made the man’s body and mind better able to endure them; so he gave him the outdoor tasks to do; and for the woman, having made her body less able for these tasks, the god, he said, seems to me to have set her the indoor work.

συνεπαινεῖsynepainei δέde,, ἔφηephē φάναιphanai,, καὶkai ὁho νόμοςnomos αὐτάauta,, συζευγνὺςsyzeugnys ἄνδραandra καὶkai γυναῖκαgynaika;· καὶkai κοινωνοὺςkoinōnous ὥσπερhōsper τῶνtōn τέκνωνteknōn ὁho θεὸςtheos ἐποίησενepoiēsen,, οὕτωhoutō καὶkai ὁho νόμοςnomos τοῦtou οἴκουoikou κοινωνοὺςkoinōnous καθίστησιkathistēsi.. καὶkai καλὰkala δὲde εἶναιeinai ὁho νόμοςnomos ἀποδείκνυσινapodeiknysin ἃha καὶkai ὁho θεὸςtheos ἔφυσενephysen ἑκάτερονhekateron μᾶλλονmallon δύνασθαιdynasthai.. τῇtēi μὲνmen γὰρgar γυναικὶgynaiki κάλλιονkallion ἔνδονendon μένεινmenein ἢē θυραυλεῖνthyraulein,, τῷtōi δὲde ἀνδρὶandri αἴσχιονaischion ἔνδονendon μένεινmenein ἢē τῶνtōn ἔξωexō ἐπιμελεῖσθαιepimeleisthai..

and approves, he said that he said, also the law these things, yoking together man and woman: and partners just as of the children the god made them, so also the law of the household partners establishes. and fine to be the law declares the things which also the god made each more to be able. for to the woman finer indoors to stay than to live out of doors, and to the man more shameful indoors to stay than the outside things to look after.

And these things are approved, he said, also by the law, which joins man and woman; and just as in their children the god made them partners, so the law too sets them up as partners in the household. And what is fine, the law shows, is what the god too made each better able to do. For the woman it is finer to stay indoors than to live out of doors, but for the man it is more shameful to stay indoors than to look after the outdoor work.

ὍτιHoti,, ἔφηνephēn ἐγώegō,, ἐκείνηekeinē γεge ἐνen τῷtōi σμήνειsmēnei μένουσαmenousa οὐκouk ἐᾷeai ἀργοὺςargous τὰςtas μελίτταςmelittas εἶναιeinai,, ἀλλ’all’ ἃςhas μὲνmen δεῖdei ἔξωexō ἐργάζεσθαιergazesthai ἐκπέμπειekpempei ἐπὶepi τὸto ἔργονergon,, καὶkai ἃha ἂνan αὐτῶνautōn ἑκάστηhekastē εἰσφέρῃeispherēi οἶδέoide τεte καὶkai δέχεταιdechetai,, καὶkai σῴζειsōizei ταῦταtauta ἔστ’est’ ἂνan δέῃdeēi χρῆσθαιchrēsthai.. ἐπειδὰνepeidan δὲde ἡhē ὥραhōra τοῦtou χρῆσθαιchrēsthai ἥκῃhēkēi,, διανέμειdianemei τὸto δίκαιονdikaion ἑκάστῃhekastēi..

Because, I said, that one at least in the hive staying does not allow idle the bees to be, but those that must outside work she sends out to the work, and what each of them brings in she both knows and receives, and keeps these safe until there is need to use them. and when the time of using has come, she shares out the fair share to each.

Because, I said, she, staying in the hive, does not let the bees be idle, but sends out to work those that must work outside, and knows and receives what each brings in, and keeps it safe until it must be used. And when the time for using it comes, she shares out the fair portion to each.

καὶkai ἐπὶepi τοῖςtois ἔνδονendon δ’d’ ἐξυφαινομένοιςexyphainomenois κηρίοιςkēriois ἐφέστηκενephestēken,, ὡςhōs καλῶςkalōs καὶkai ταχέωςtacheōs ὑφαίνηταιhyphainētai,, καὶkai τοῦtou γιγνομένουgignomenou τόκουtokou ἐπιμελεῖταιepimeleitai ὡςhōs ἐκτρέφηταιektrephētai;· ἐπειδὰνepeidan δὲde ἐκτραφῇektraphēi καὶkai ἀξιοεργοὶaxioergoi οἱhoi νεοττοὶneottoi γένωνταιgenōntai,, ἀποικίζειapoikizei αὐτούςautous σὺνsyn τῶνtōn ἐπιγόνωνepigonōn τινὶtini ἡγεμόνιhēgemoni..

and over the inside being-woven combs she is set, so that well and quickly they be woven, and of the brood coming to be she takes care so that it be raised: and when it has been raised and fit for work the young have become, she sends them out as a colony with of the offspring one as leader.

She is also set over the combs being woven inside, that they may be woven well and quickly, and she takes care of the brood that is born, that it may be raised; and when it has been raised and the young have become fit for work, she sends them out as a colony with one of the young as leader.6

6. The Greek verb apoikizei is the one used for sending out settlers to found a new city. The young bee who goes with the swarm is its “leader” (Holden).

καὶkai ὅτανhotan ἔριαeria εἰσενεχθῇeisenechthēi σοιsoi,, ἐπιμελητέονepimelēteon ὅπωςhopōs οἷςhois δεῖdei ἱμάτιαhimatia γίγνηταιgignētai.. καὶkai ὅho γεge ξηρὸςxēros σῖτοςsitos ὅπωςhopōs καλῶςkalōs ἐδώδιμοςedōdimos γίγνηταιgignētai ἐπιμελητέονepimelēteon..

and when wool has been brought in to you, must be seen to so that for those who need cloaks are made. and the dry grain, so that well fit to eat it becomes, must be seen to.

And when wool has been brought in to you, care must be taken that cloaks are made for those who need them. And the dry grain, that it may be properly fit to eat, must be seen to.

ἓνhen μέντοιmentoi τῶνtōn σοὶsoi προσηκόντωνprosēkontōn,, ἔφηνephēn ἐγώegō,, ἐπιμελημάτωνepimelēmatōn ἴσωςisōs ἀχαριστότερονacharistoteron δόξειdoxei εἶναιeinai,, ὅτιhoti,, ὃςhos ἂνan κάμνῃkamnēi τῶνtōn οἰκετῶνoiketōn,, τούτωνtoutōn σοιsoi ἐπιμελητέονepimelēteon πάντωνpantōn ὅπωςhopōs θεραπεύηταιtherapeuētai.. ΝὴNē Δί’Di’,, ἔφηephē ἡhē γυνήgynē,, ἐπιχαριτώτατονepicharitōtaton μὲνmen οὖνoun,, ἂνan μέλλωσίmellōsi γεge οἱhoi καλῶςkalōs θεραπευθέντεςtherapeuthentes χάρινcharin εἴσεσθαιeisesthai καὶkai εὐνούστεροιeunousteroi ἢē πρόσθενprosthen ἔσεσθαιesesthai..

one indeed of the things that belong to you, I said, cares perhaps less pleasing will seem to be, that whoever may be ill of the servants, of these by you must be taken care, of all, so that he be tended. Yes, by Zeus, said the wife, most pleasing, rather, if they are going, at least, those well tended thanks to feel and kinder than before to be.

One of the duties that belong to you, I said, will perhaps seem the less pleasant, in that, whichever of the servants falls ill, you must look after every one of them so that he is tended. Yes, by Zeus, said my wife, nay, it is the most pleasant, if those who are well cared for are going to be grateful and kinder than before.

καὶkai ἡhē γυνήgynē μοιmoi ἀπεκρίνατοapekrinato;· Θαυμάζοιμ’Thaumazoim’ ἄνan,, ἔφηephē,, εἰei μὴmē πρὸςpros σὲse μᾶλλονmallon τείνοιteinoi τὰta τοῦtou ἡγεμόνοςhēgemonos ἔργαerga ἢē πρὸςpros ἐμέeme.. ἡhē γὰρgar ἐμὴemē φυλακὴphylakē τῶνtōn ἔνδονendon καὶkai διανομὴdianomē γελοίαgeloia τιςtis ἄνan,, οἶμαιoimai,, φαίνοιτοphainoito,, εἰei μὴmē σύγεsyge ἐπιμελοῖοepimeloio ὅπωςhopōs ἔξωθένexōthen τιti εἰσφέροιτοeispheroito..

and the wife to me answered: I would wonder, she said, if not to you more extended the of the leader tasks than to me. for my guarding of the inside things and sharing out ridiculous somewhat would, I think, appear, if you at least did not take care that from outside something be brought in.

And my wife answered me: I should be surprised, she said, if the leader’s tasks did not bear more on you than on me. For my guarding and sharing out of what is inside would seem rather ridiculous, I think, if you did not take care that something was brought in from outside.

ΓελοίαGeloia δ’d’ αὖau,, ἔφηνephēn ἐγώegō,, ἡhē ἐμὴemē εἰσφορὰeisphora φαίνοιτ’phainoit’ ἄνan,, εἰei μὴmē εἴηeiē ὅστιςhostis τὰta εἰσενεχθένταeisenechthenta σῴζοιsōizoi.. οὐχouch ὁρᾷςhorais,, ἔφηνephēn ἐγώegō,, οἱhoi εἰςeis τὸνton τετρημένονtetrēmenon πίθονpithon ἀντλεῖνantlein λεγόμενοιlegomenoi ὡςhōs οἰκτίρονταιoiktirontai,, ὅτιhoti μάτηνmatēn πονεῖνponein δοκοῦσιdokousi?; ΝὴNē Δί’Di’,, ἔφηephē ἡhē γυνήgynē,, καὶkai γὰρgar τλήμονέςtlēmones εἰσινeisin,, εἰei τοῦτόtouto γεge ποιοῦσινpoiousin..

And ridiculous in turn, I said, my bringing-in would seem, if there were not anyone who the things brought in should keep safe. do you not see, I said, those into the pierced jar to pour water said to, how they are pitied, because in vain to toil they seem? Yes, by Zeus, said the wife, for indeed wretched they are, if this at least they do.

And ridiculous in its turn, I said, my bringing in would seem, if there were no one to keep safe what was brought in. Do you not see, I said, those said to draw water into a leaking jar,7 how they are pitied, because they seem to toil in vain? Yes, by Zeus, said my wife, for they are wretched indeed, if that is what they do.

7. A reference to the story of the Danaids, women condemned to pour water into a jar with holes in it, and so to work without end (Holden).

τὰta γὰρgar καλάkala τεte κἀγαθάkagatha,, ἐγὼegō ἔφηνephēn,, οὐou διὰdia τὰςtas ὡραιότηταςhōraiotētas,, ἀλλὰalla διὰdia τὰςtas ἀρετὰςaretas εἰςeis τὸνton βίονbion τοῖςtois ἀνθρώποιςanthrōpois ἐπαύξεταιepauxetai.. τοιαῦταtoiauta μένmen,, ὦō ΣώκρατεςSōkrates,, δοκῶdokō μεμνῆσθαιmemnēsthai αὐτῇautēi τὰta πρῶταprōta διαλεχθείςdialechtheis..

for the fine and good things, I said, not through the bloom of youth, but through the excellences for life to people increase. such things indeed, Socrates, I think I remember to her the first things having said.

For fine and good things, I said, do not grow from youthful beauty, but from excellence, in people’s lives. Such things, Socrates, I think I remember saying to her at first.

καὶkai ἐγὼegō μέντοιmentoi ἰδὼνidōn ἀχθεσθεῖσανachthestheisan αὐτὴνautēn εἶπονeipon;· ΜηδένMēden τιti,, ἔφηνephēn,, ἀθυμήσῃςathymēsēis,, ὦō γύναιgynai,, ὅτιhoti οὐκouk ἔχειςecheis δοῦναιdounai ὅho σεse αἰτῶνaitōn τυγχάνωtynchanō.. ἔστιesti μὲνmen γὰρgar πενίαpenia αὕτηhautē σαφήςsaphēs,, τὸto δεόμενόνdeomenon τινοςtinos μὴmē ἔχεινechein χρῆσθαιchrēsthai;· ἀλυποτέραalypotera δὲde αὕτηhautē ἡhē ἔνδειαendeia,, τὸto ζητοῦντάzētounta τιti μὴmē δύνασθαιdynasthai λαβεῖνlabein,, ἢē τὴνtēn ἀρχὴνarchēn μηδὲmēde ζητεῖνzētein εἰδόταeidota ὅτιhoti οὐκouk ἔστινestin.. ἀλλὰalla γάρgar,, ἔφηνephēn ἐγώegō,, τούτωνtoutōn οὐou σὺsy αἰτίαaitia,, ἀλλ’all’ ἐγὼegō οὐou τάξαςtaxas σοιsoi παρέδωκαparedōka ὅπουhopou χρὴchrē ἕκασταhekasta κεῖσθαιkeisthai,, ὅπωςhopōs εἰδῇςeidēis ὅπουhopou τεte δεῖdei τιθέναιtithenai καὶkai ὁπόθενhopothen λαμβάνεινlambanein..

and I indeed seeing her distressed said: In nothing, I said, be downcast, wife, because you do not have to give what I happen to be asking you for. for this is poverty, plain, to be in need of something not to have to use: but less painful this want, to look for something and not be able to get it, than at the start not even to look, knowing that it is not. but indeed, I said, of these not you the cause, but I not having arranged handed over to you where it is necessary each to lie, so that you might know where both to put and from where to take.

And I, seeing that she was upset, said: Do not be at all downcast, I said, wife, that you cannot give me what I happen to be asking you for. For this is plain poverty, to need something and not have it to use; but this want is less painful, to look for something and be unable to find it, than not to look at all, knowing it is not there. But, I said, you are not to blame for this; it is I who handed things over to you without arranging where each should lie, so that you might know where to put things and where to take them from.

ἔστιesti δ’d’ οὐδὲνouden οὕτωςhoutōs,, ὦō γύναιgynai,, οὔτ’out’ εὔχρηστονeuchrēston οὔτεoute καλὸνkalon ἀνθρώποιςanthrōpois ὡςhōs τάξιςtaxis.. καὶkai γὰρgar χορὸςchoros ἐξex ἀνθρώπωνanthrōpōn συγκείμενόςsynkeimenos ἐστινestin;· ἀλλ’all’ ὅτανhotan μὲνmen ποιῶσινpoiōsin ὅho τιti ἂνan τύχῃtychēi ἕκαστοςhekastos,, ταραχήtarachē τιςtis φαίνεταιphainetai καὶkai θεᾶσθαιtheasthai ἀτερπέςaterpes,, ὅτανhotan δὲde τεταγμένωςtetagmenōs ποιῶσιpoiōsi καὶkai φθέγγωνταιphthengōntai,, ἅμαhama οἱhoi αὐτοὶautoi οὗτοιhoutoi καὶkai ἀξιοθέατοιaxiotheatoi δοκοῦσινdokousin εἶναιeinai καὶkai ἀξιάκουστοιaxiakoustoi..

there is nothing so, wife, neither useful nor fine to people as order. for even a chorus of people composed is: but when they do whatever may happen each, a confusion some appears and to watch unpleasant, but when in order they act and utter sound, at once the same these both worth watching they seem to be and worth hearing.

There is nothing, wife, so useful or so fine for people as order. For a chorus of people is a company put together; but when each does whatever comes to him, a kind of confusion appears and it is unpleasant to watch, but when they act and sing in order, at once these same people seem worth watching and worth hearing.

ἡhē δ’d’ ἀταξίαataxia ὅμοιόνhomoion τίti μοιmoi δοκεῖdokei εἶναιeinai οἷόνπερhoionper εἰei γεωργὸςgeōrgos ὁμοῦhomou ἐμβάλοιembaloi κριθὰςkrithas καὶkai πυροὺςpyrous καὶkai ὄσπριαospria,, κἄπειταkapeita,, ὁπότεhopote δέοιdeoi ἢē μάζηςmazēs ἢē ἄρτουartou ἢē ὄψουopsou,, διαλέγεινdialegein δέοιdeoi αὐτῷautōi ἀντὶanti τοῦtou λαβόνταlabonta διηυκρινημένοιςdiēukrinēmenois χρῆσθαιchrēsthai..

but the disorder like something to me seems to be just as if a farmer together should throw in barley and wheat and pulses, and then, when there were need of either barley-cake or bread or relish, to pick out it were needed for him instead of taking and using things sorted.

Disorder seems to me something like this: as if a farmer were to throw together barley, wheat and pulses, and then, when he needed barley cake or bread or relish,8 he had to pick them out instead of taking them sorted and using them.

8. Maza was a simple dough of barley meal, moistened with water, or with wine and oil, and eaten without further cooking. Bread was made of wheat flour and baked (Holden).

καλλίστηνkallistēn δέde ποτεpote καὶkai ἀκριβεστάτηνakribestatēn ἔδοξαedoxa σκευῶνskeuōn τάξινtaxin ἰδεῖνidein,, ὦō ΣώκρατεςSōkrates,, εἰσβὰςeisbas ἐπὶepi θέανthean εἰςeis τὸto μέγαmega πλοῖονploion τὸto ΦοινικικόνPhoinikikon.. πλεῖσταpleista γὰρgar σκεύηskeuē ἐνen σμικροτάτῳsmikrotatōi ἀγγείῳangeiōi διακεχωρισμέναdiakechōrismena ἐθεασάμηνetheasamēn..

and the finest once and most exact I seemed of equipment order to see, Socrates, having gone aboard to look into the great ship the Phoenician. for very many utensils in a very small vessel kept separate I saw.

And once I thought I saw the finest and most exact arrangement of equipment, Socrates, when I went aboard to look at the great Phoenician ship.9 For I saw very many pieces of equipment in a very small vessel, each set apart from the others.

9. Holden suggests this was a well-known merchant ship that made regular voyages between Athens and one or more foreign ports.

καὶkai ὅσαhosa λέγωlegō,, ἔφηephē,, ἐγώegō,, πάνταpanta οὐκouk ἐνen πολλῷpollōi τινιtini μείζονιmeizoni χώρᾳchōrai ἔκειτοekeito ἢē ἐνen δεκακλίνῳdekaklinōi στέγῃstegēi συμμέτρῳsymmetrōi.. καὶkai οὕτωhoutō κείμεναkeimena ἕκασταhekasta κατενόησαkatenoēsa ὡςhōs οὔτεoute ἄλληλαallēla ἐμποδίζειempodizei οὔτεoute μαστευτοῦmasteutou δεῖταιdeitai οὔτεoute ἀσυσκεύαστάasyskeuasta ἐστινestin οὔτεoute δυσλύτωςdyslytōs ἔχειechei,, ὥστεhōste διατριβὴνdiatribēn παρέχεινparechein,, ὅτανhotan τῳtōi ταχὺtachy δέῃdeēi χρῆσθαιchrēsthai..

and all I speak of, he said, I, all not in much some larger space lay than in a ten-couch room of fair size. and so lying each thing I noticed that neither one another it hinders nor of a searcher has need nor unpacked is nor with difficulty to undo is, so as delay to cause, when for anyone quickly there is need to use.

And all the things I speak of, he said, lay in a space not much larger than a room for ten couches, of fair proportions. And I saw each thing lying so that none gets in another’s way, none needs a searcher, none is unready for use, none is hard to undo, so as to cause delay when someone needs it quickly.

ὡςhōs μὲνmen δὴdē ἀγαθὸνagathon τετάχθαιtetachthai σκευῶνskeuōn κατασκευὴνkataskeuēn καὶkai ὡςhōs ῥάδιονrhadion χώρανchōran ἑκάστοιςhekastois αὐτῶνautōn εὑρεῖνheurein ἐνen οἰκίᾳoikiai θεῖναιtheinai ὡςhōs ἑκάστοιςhekastois συμφέρειsympherei εἴρηταιeirētai;· ὡςhōs δὲde καλὸνkalon φαίνεταιphainetai,, ἐπειδὰνepeidan ὑποδήματαhypodēmata ἐφεξῆςephexēs κέηταιkeētai,, κἂνkan ὁποῖαhopoia ᾖēi,, καλὸνkalon δὲde ἱμάτιαhimatia κεχωρισμέναkechōrismena ἰδεῖνidein,, κἂνkan ὁποῖαhopoia ᾖēi,, καλὸνkalon δὲde στρώματαstrōmata,, καλὸνkalon δὲde χαλκίαchalkia,, καλὸνkalon δὲde τὰta ἀμφὶamphi τραπέζαςtrapezas,, καλὸνkalon δὲde καὶkai ὃho πάντωνpantōn καταγελάσειενkatagelaseien ἂνan μάλισταmalista οὐχouch ὁho σεμνὸςsemnos ἀλλ’all’ ὁho κομψόςkompsos,, καὶkai χύτραςchytras εὔρυθμονeurythmon φαίνεσθαιphainesthai εὐκρινῶςeukrinōs κειμέναςkeimenas—ta—τὰ δὲde ἄλλαalla ἤδηēdē πουpou ἀπὸapo τούτουtoutou ἅπανταhapanta καλλίωkalliō φαίνεταιphainetai κατὰkata κόσμονkosmon κείμεναkeimena;· χορὸςchoros γὰρgar σκευῶνskeuōn ἕκασταhekasta φαίνεταιphainetai,, καὶkai τὸto μέσονmeson δὲde πάντωνpantōn τούτωνtoutōn καλὸνkalon φαίνεταιphainetai,, ἐκποδὼνekpodōn ἑκάστουhekastou κειμένουkeimenou;·

as good indeed to have been set in order of equipment arrangement and as easy a place for each of them to find in the house to put as it suits each has been said: and how fine it looks, when shoes in a row lie, even if of whatever kind, and fine clothes set apart to see, even if of whatever kind, and fine bedding, and fine bronzes, and fine the things about tables, and fine also what of all would laugh at most not the solemn man but the clever, even pots graceful to look when clearly laid out—and the other things already, I suppose, from this all finer appear in good order lying: for a chorus of utensils each group appears, and the middle of all these fine appears, out of the way each lying:

How good it is for the equipment to be kept in order, and how easy it is to find a place in the house for each, as suits it best, has been said; how fine it looks when shoes lie in a row, whatever they are, fine to see clothes set apart, whatever they are, fine bedding, fine bronzes, fine table things, and fine too, though the clever man more than the solemn one would laugh at it, even cooking pots look graceful neatly arranged—and from this everything else looks finer lying in good order;10 for each set looks like a chorus of utensils, and the space in the middle of all these looks fine, with each thing lying out of the way;

10. The edition sets this remark off with dashes. Ischomachus expects the clever man to laugh at admiring pots, then goes on with his point that everything looks finer in good order.

ἴσμενismen γὰρgar δήπουdēpou ὅτιhoti μυριοπλάσιαmyrioplasia ἡμῶνhēmōn ἅπανταhapanta ἔχειechei ἡhē πᾶσαpasa πόλιςpolis,, ἀλλ’all’ ὅμωςhomōs,, ὁποῖονhopoion ἂνan τῶνtōn οἰκετῶνoiketōn κελεύσῃςkeleusēis πριάμενόνpriamenon τίti σοιsoi ἐξex ἀγορᾶςagoras ἐνεγκεῖνenenkein,, οὐδεὶςoudeis ἀπορήσειaporēsei,, ἀλλὰalla πᾶςpas εἰδὼςeidōs φανεῖταιphaneitai ὅποιhopoi χρὴchrē ἐλθόνταelthonta λαβεῖνlabein ἕκασταhekasta..

for we know I suppose that ten-thousandfold of us all things has the whole city, but nevertheless, whichever of the servants you may tell having bought something for you from the market to bring, no one will be at a loss, but every one knowing will be found where it is necessary having gone to get each thing.

We know that the whole city has ten thousand times more than we do, but still, whichever servant you tell to buy something in the market and bring it, none will be at a loss, but every one will be found knowing where to go to get each thing.

ΚαὶKai τίti δήdē?; ἡhē γυνὴgynē ἐδόκειedokei σοιsoi,, ἔφηνephēn ἐγώegō,, ὦō ἸσχόμαχεIschomache,, πώςpōs τιti ὑπακούεινhypakouein ὧνhōn σὺsy ἐσπούδαζεςespoudazes διδάσκωνdidaskōn?; ΤίTi δέde,, εἰei μὴmē ὑπισχνεῖτόhypischneito γεge ἐπιμελήσεσθαιepimelēsesthai καὶkai φανερὰphanera ἦνēn ἡδομένηhēdomenē ἰσχυρῶςischyrōs,, ὥσπερhōsper ἐξex ἀμηχανίαςamēchanias εὐπορίανeuporian τινὰtina ηὑρηκυῖαhēurēkuia,, καὶkai ἐδεῖτόedeito μουmou ὡςhōs τάχισταtachista ᾗπερhēiper ἔλεγονelegon διατάξαιdiataxai..

And what then? the wife seemed to you, I said, Ischomachus, somehow at all to give heed to what you were eager teaching? And what, if not that she promised at least to take care and plain she was pleased strongly, as if out of helplessness a resource some having found, and she begged me as soon as possible what I said to arrange.

And what then? Did your wife seem to you, I said, Ischomachus, to give any kind of heed to the things you were so eager to teach? Why, she promised to take care of it and was plainly very pleased, as if she had found a way out of helplessness, and she begged me, as soon as possible, to set things in order as I had said.

οὐou γὰρgar ποικίλμασιpoikilmasi κεκόσμηταιkekosmētai,, ὦō ΣώκρατεςSōkrates,, ἀλλὰalla τὰta οἰκήματαoikēmata ᾠκοδόμηταιōikodomētai πρὸςpros αὐτὸauto τοῦτοtouto ἐσκεμμέναeskemmena,, ὅπωςhopōs ἀγγεῖαangeia ὡςhōs συμφορώταταsymphorōtata ᾖēi τοῖςtois μέλλουσινmellousin ἐνen αὐτοῖςautois ἔσεσθαιesesthai;· ὥστεhōste αὐτὰauta ἐκάλειekalei τὰta πρέπονταpreponta εἶναιeinai ἐνen ἑκάστῳhekastōi.. ὁho μὲνmen γὰρgar θάλαμοςthalamos ἐνen ὀχυρῷochyrōi ὤνōn τὰta πλείστουpleistou ἄξιαaxia καὶkai στρώματαstrōmata καὶkai σκεύηskeuē παρεκάλειparekalei,, τὰta δὲde ξηρὰxēra τῶνtōn στεγῶνstegōn τὸνton σῖτονsiton,, τὰta δὲde ψυχεινὰpsycheina τὸνton οἶνονoinon,, τὰta δὲde φανὰphana ὅσαhosa φάουςphaous δεόμεναdeomena ἔργαerga τεte καὶkai σκεύηskeuē ἐστίesti..

for not with decorations is it adorned, Socrates, but the rooms have been built for this very thing planned, so that containers as convenient as possible they be for what is going in them to be: so that themselves they called the things fitting to be in each. for the inner room, being in a secure place, the things of most worth and bedding and utensils called, and the dry of the roofed places the grain, and the cool the wine, and the bright, as many as need light, work and utensils are.

For it is not adorned with decorations, Socrates, but the rooms were built with this very thing in mind, so that they might be the most convenient containers for what was to be in them; so that the rooms themselves called for the things that suited them to be in each. For the inner room, being in a secure place,11 called for the most valuable bedding and utensils, the dry parts of the house the grain, and the cool ones the wine, and the bright ones whatever work and vessels need light.

11. Holden takes thalamos as the married couple’s bedroom, not a store-room, as an earlier editor had it. It is the inner room, the most secure place in the house.

καὶkai διαιτητήριαdiaitētēria δὲde τοῖςtois ἀνθρώποιςanthrōpois ἐπεδείκνυονepedeiknyon αὐτῇautēi κεκαλλωπισμέναkekallōpismena,, τοῦtou μὲνmen θέρουςtherous ἔχεινechein ψυχεινάpsycheina,, τοῦtou δὲde χειμῶνοςcheimōnos ἀλεεινάaleeina.. καὶkai σύμπασανsympasan δὲde τὴνtēn οἰκίανoikian ἐπέδειξαepedeixa αὐτῇautēi ὅτιhoti πρὸςpros μεσημβρίανmesēmbrian ἀναπέπταταιanapeptatai,, ὥστεhōste εὔδηλονeudēlon εἶναιeinai ὅτιhoti χειμῶνοςcheimōnos μὲνmen εὐήλιόςeuēlios ἐστιesti,, τοῦtou δὲde θέρουςtherous εὔσκιοςeuskios.. ἔδειξαedeixa δὲde καὶkai τὴνtēn γυναικωνῖτινgynaikōnitin αὐτῇautēi,, θύρᾳthyrai βαλανωτῇbalanōtēi ὡρισμένηνhōrismenēn ἀπὸapo τῆςtēs ἀνδρωνίτιδοςandrōnitidos,, ἵναhina μήτεmēte ἐκφέρηταιekpherētai ἔνδοθενendothen ὅho τιti μὴmē δεῖdei μήτεmēte τεκνοποιῶνταιteknopoiōntai οἱhoi οἰκέταιoiketai ἄνευaneu τῆςtēs ἡμετέραςhēmeteras γνώμηςgnōmēs..

and living rooms for the people I showed her made handsome, in summer to have cool, and in winter warm. and the whole house I showed her that to the south it lies open, so that evident it is that in winter it is sunny, and in summer shady. and I showed also the women’s quarters to her, by a bolted door marked off from the men’s quarters, so that neither be carried out from inside what ought not nor have children the household servants without our judgment.

And the living rooms for the people I showed her, finely made, cool in summer and warm in winter. And I showed her the whole house, that it lies open to the south, so that it is plain that in winter it is sunny and in summer shady. I showed her the women’s quarters too,12 marked off from the men’s quarters by a bolted door, so that nothing is carried out from inside that should not be and the household servants do not have children without our approval.13

12. The women’s quarters (gynaikonitis) were kept apart from the men’s. A door fastened with a bar and a bolt-pin joined the two parts of the house (Holden, citing Becker).
13. The household servants were enslaved. The Greek says “our judgment”, meaning Ischomachus and his wife together; the enslaved people have no say in it.